Today, we’re happy to interview members of Back Makers United, the new union of Back Market in New York!
If you haven’t caught up on the news yet, they have requested to be recognized by the company. In the US, employees have to go through this process to be officially recognized, compared to Europe. In response, management has forced a vote on January 15th, instead of recognizing them voluntarily, and hired a notorious union busting law firm for counseling.
We have the honor to receive John and Kate to tell us more about their motivations, why did they decide to form a union, and their wish for the company.
They are part of Back Market since 2022, and even though they were victims of the layoffs that year, they still decided to come back.
👋 Hello and welcome! Could you introduce yourselves?
John: I’m John, a Seller Lifecycle Manager living in Brooklyn! Alternatively you might know me as “that American with the mustache”.
Kate: I’m Kate, an Advanced Internal Care and eReputation agent. I also live in Brooklyn!
📌 How did you come to work at Back Market?
John: I weirdly grew up being really into right to repair. I used to fix up and jailbreak iPod touches back in school, so when I found Back Market it was a perfect fit.
Kate: I used to work at Tekserve, a beloved local NYC refurb and repair shop for Macs, that is tragically closed now 😭. I loved it and learned a lot about how to fix up old machines. Then we started to see newer models that were designed not to be repairable and that always stuck with me – when I learned about Back Market I thought, this is something I want to support! 🌹
🤗 What’s your favorite thing about working at BM?
John: The people! I’ve made so many true lifelong friends working here, it’s a really supportive and friendly culture.
Kate: Not to sound like I’m copying John, but definitely the people. Our mission and culture attract kind people who want to make things better. That’s rare!
☝️ If you could change one thing, what would it be?
John: In the US specifically, I would want us to step away from “At Will” employment, meaning your employer can terminate you at any time for any reason.
I’d prefer if we switched to “Just cause” employment, which is similar to the system in France, where there is a formal arbitration process and protections against unjustified firings.
Globally I’d love to see the company take a stronger stance against unnecessary use of generative AI as it’s super un-green.
Kate: I would also like to see a move away from “At Will” to “Just Cause” and some guardrails around AI usage in the company!
Additionally we really need compensation tied to cost of living for the area around our office, especially if we’re tracking and mandating in-office work.
🫶 What’s your favorite mantra?
John: “It’s not Green Enough” – this mantra, lifted from Patagonia founder Yvon Chouinard, still resonates with me just as much as when I joined in 2022.
We should always find a better, more socially and environmentally conscious way to do it.
It reminds me of another quote from Chouinard that I like “Every time we’ve done the right thing it’s ended up making us more money”.
Kate: To me it’s Humble Hearts, Dirty Hands. I love the egalitarianism.
I love that we say, as a company, no one’s work is less-than or not as important. We recognize on a company level that all roles contribute to our shared success and no one kind of work is “beneath” someone else. Every job takes skill and hard work, and every worker deserves to be recognized for that. It’s beautiful honestly.
✊ How did you first come to talk about starting a union?
John: This year, we saw several firings and departures alongside raises that didn’t keep up with the cost of living in NYC.
This combination of issues led us to start the discussion, as we realized that there was no other recourse except to band together and stand up for one another.
A union gives us the opportunity to gain protections against unjust firings and bargain together for a fair living wage.
Kate: Agreed, the sudden loss of many of our colleagues was really jarring. It made me and other Back Makers feel that our jobs and futures were not secure here, even as we worked so hard to deliver really remarkable growth in the US.
On the question of salary, promotions are often the clearest path to a raise – but a lot of us have been told that there is no way for us to grow in the company without moving to France. It just started to seem like we were out of options and had to turn to each other.
🗣️ Did you feel talking with management wasn’t an option?
John: We talked with management quite a bit actually! There were several town halls and meetings throughout the year, where we communicated clearly what problems we faced, such as low wages and raises, lack of protections, etc…
One time I was shocked when I asked “what reason would you give to someone to invest in a future working here?”, and the given answer was essentially “if this isn’t good enough for you, I’ll be your reference for your next job”.
Kate: We have raised concerns many ways in many forums, and we were heard on some things, like the HSA issue! (Health Saving Account).
But as John said, just as often our concerns have been dismissed or deferred. We reached a point where it simply couldn’t wait any longer.
Did BM unions in France 🇫🇷 and Spain 🇪🇸 inspire you?
John: Absolutely! We were heartened knowing that so many Back Makers had already taken this step encouraged us in our resolve. We knew that our unionized colleagues would stand in solidarity with us which gave us a unique advantage.
Kate: One hundred percent. Knowing that our colleagues already have these unions in place was really inspirational and a big help in convincing Back Makers to support our efforts!
💸 Salary is one of your biggest concerns. What’s going on?
John: New York City is currently undergoing a cost of living crisis.
MIT estimates that for a person with no children in NYC, the minimum survival wage is around $70k. Some Back Makers who have worked here for 5 years still don’t make that amount.
Additionally, at a time when housing costs in NYC increased nearly 6%, many Back Makers we surveyed saw their wages go up 2-3%, which is essentially a paycut.
If you combine this with the fact that many Back Makers, myself included, are still being paid below the salary range for their position, it’s just not a fair bargain.
Kate: It just eventually becomes infeasible to stay in a job where this is the situation. Would you stay someplace where they cut your pay by 4-3% every year?
🫤 Are you disappointed BM hired BSK as a legal counselor?
John: Back Market leadership had the opportunity to prove that we truly live by B-Corp values, do the right thing, and voluntarily recognize our union.
A simple card check would have shown them we have 75% support amongst eligible employees meaning a supermajority of Back Makers want a union!
Instead they have opted to bring on a law firm that has a 40 year history of union busting. This law firm has been called out in the media for unethical practices, attempted to union bust a firefighters union and were even admonished by the New York Public Employment Relations Board for their conduct.
Specifically the lawyer they’re working with, Peter Jones, has been in the media for suggesting universities should lock students and professors out of their schools to “intimidate” them for daring to unionize.
It’s disappointing that leadership would rather spend that much money to retain their services than to give their employees a seat at the table.
Kate: Think what those lawyer’s fees could be paying for instead. It’s not just damaging to our brand, it’s damaging to our mission because of the real company resources now being siphoned away from the fight against new. BSK is also known for drawing out these processes unnecessarily, which conveniently means more billable hours for them.
👨💼 Did Mamdani’s win as the mayor of NYC inspire you?
John: I think Mamdani’s campaign spoke to a lot of the same issues our movement does. He understands that NYC is simply too expensive for the average person to live in. The fact that he is also a champion for union rights is a huge deal as well.
A line from his victory speech that stuck with me was:
“We will stand alongside unions and expand labor protections because we know that when working people have ironclad rights, the bosses who seek to extort them become very small indeed.”
Kate: Zohran’s victory has given a lot of New Yorkers and progressive Americans a huge dose of hope - we really needed it! The fact is his message resonates with people because we’re fed up and desperately need change. It’s been great seeing him out on the picket lines with Starbucks baristas!
🔥 In summary, do you want to burn BM to the ground?
John: Not at all! We started this movement primarily out of a love for Back Market. We all want to see the company and the mission succeed or else we wouldn’t be here.
We believe that a sustainable future needs to include all of us in it.
Kate: Not even a little bit. We’re just regular workers who love Back Market and what it stands for, and would love to stay with the company longterm.
We care about this place and want to make it possible to build a future here. We’d really love for management to work with us so we can make that happen.